Curse

lightblade · Apr 27, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Assassin's damage output and warrior doesn't have much different, but they have their own style.

Assassin's damage is stable, every attack's damage is about the same.
Warrior's damage starts low until adrenalines are charged.

Assassin require at least 7 attack skills (as in times you use an attack skill) to kill, Warrior only need 4

So my conclusion is that Warriors are capable of sudden burst of damage, while assassins are not capable of surprises. Also, Assassins are more vulnurable to SS like skills, but less vulnurable to Sympathetic Visage and Soothing Image.

Reply 1: Nope, assassin's attack skill take 12 seconds to recharge on average, just about time adrenaline charges.

DieInBasra · Apr 27, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Uh, actually, warriors have greater dps and "burst damage" then the assassin,if you had bothered to look up the numbers. Assassins have a smaller gap between their damage "bursts", though, or at least they can.

Vermilion Okeanos · Apr 27, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

They are about the same. In my opinion though, it is kind of hard to do a fair math with the two. One primary reason is that they are on different timeline of a battle.

An assassin can go in and start doing some deadly blows as soon as battle fronts are in contact. The dual attack skills really make up for the weaker attack power of the dagger, this is where their damage become equal or above warrior's damage.

A warrior can do a huge amount of damage, but need the build up and then release. Unlike assassin, they don't need to rely on the sole sucess of the dual attack to be strong. If assassin's dual attack are constantly disrupted in some way (blind, interrupt, etc), warrior will outshine assassin.

In the end, it is all about how your team play your battle out.

I believe, there are no better solo killer than assassin. They are perfect for killing other's runner, before heal can arrive. This is something warrior can't do as well, as by the time they build their andrenline up, heal is already here; it would also be harder to control your andrenline when you don't know at what time will the runner target run off to get a flag. I would put ranger to support the assassin if anything.

I would like to see someone include all the attack skills + auto-attack in a minute long DPS chart. I certainly don't have the time to do this, and test it.

disposable-hero · Apr 27, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

I find once i've dropped 3/4 conditions on my target who cares what dmg i'm doing (well i do but not as much as a warrior). Unfortunatly yes the assasin can stand and deal a constant lvl of dmg but but it CANT stand and tank the dmg back like a warrior making it logical to be hit and run condition stacker.

JiggyFly · Apr 28, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

One major difference bwteen the two.

Warrior: Your Eviscerate gets blocked...damn, well at least you can follow in with your Executioner's Strike and Penetrating Blow.

Assassin: Your lead attack gets blocked...damn have fun waiting on the recharge.

Siren · Apr 28, 2006, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Assassin's damage output and warrior doesn't have much different, but they have their own style.

Assassin's damage is stable, every attack's damage is about the same.
Warrior's damage starts low until adrenalines are charged.

Assassin require at least 7 attack skills (as in times you use an attack skill) to kill, Warrior only need 4

So my conclusion is that Warriors are capable of sudden burst of damage, while assassins are not capable of surprises. Also, Assassins are more vulnurable to SS like skills, but less vulnurable to Sympathetic Visage and Soothing Image.

Reply 1: Nope, assassin's attack skill take 12 seconds to recharge on average, just about time adrenaline charges.

Your analysis is half-assed. This thread shouldn't even be allowed to continue, because you're just basing your point on conjecture, rather than field-testing and number-crunching. Check the number-crunching. You'll find that Assassins are very capable of surprises. This thread really should be locked. It serves no benefit whatsoever.

lightblade · Apr 28, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Your analysis is half-assed. This thread shouldn't even be allowed to continue, because you're just basing your point on conjecture, rather than field-testing and number-crunching. Check the number-crunching. You'll find that Assassins are very capable of surprises. This thread really should be locked. It serves no benefit whatsoever.

Warriors are predictable, Assassins are even more predictable.

MysticPain · Apr 28, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyFly

One major difference bwteen the two.

Warrior: Your Eviscerate gets blocked...damn, well at least you can follow in with your Executioner's Strike and Penetrating Blow.

Assassin: Your lead attack gets blocked...damn have fun waiting on the recharge.

From what I've seen, the best assassins don't even use Lead attacks. And the good ones I've seen that do have a secondary lead.

Also, an assassin that's playing in a predictable way is an assassin that's screwed/useless. You have to be able to keep your opponent on their toes, warping in and out of battle seemingly at random and jumping the targets that have been left undefended in the chaos.

Yukito Kunisaki · Apr 28, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

I hate to say it but if you can't kill 2x as fast as a warrior can, then you suck as an assassin...

Look at how the sin supposed to work:

critical strikes
double attacks
I've seen double criticals occur before, owchie...
low armor
energy based attacks
buffs to critical rates...

On the average, a smart sin with the correct stat build: 16 dagger and 9~ critical strikes will very easily out damage a warrior every time. However, if the enemy has a defense, you're outta luck [warriors usually have a better time dealing with enemy defenses then a sin can...]

If warriors could double attack/critical, they'd be the best damage dealers in the game. Capable of elementalist style damage at no energy due to adrenaline...

Still, sins rock since you gain a massive damage boost at the start of the fight... But you sacrifice sustained dmg once you need to recharge...

Solution?

Run in, clobber, run out, wait, repeat, just like a ninja would anyway...

Siren · Apr 28, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Warriors are predictable, Assassins are even more predictable.

No, you're a fool who's barely played Assassins at all but yet think you know enough to go making asinine conclusions and comparisons between Assassins and Warriors. Your entire point in this thread is entirely contradicted by actual number-crunching.

You don't know what you're talking about. Stop posting until you do.

suiraCLAW · Apr 28, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

I don't see how a assasin can beat the dmg output of a thumper anyway...

ferocious + iresistibe + pet attack + hammer bash + curhsing blow + brutal strike/melandru's assalut + irresistible = +400 dmg in a 4 attack combo (+ pet), repeatable every 10 secs

now a assasin combo:
unsuspecting strike + fox fangs + critical strike + moebius + critical strike = not that much (probably 300-350), repeatable every 8 secs

Jetdoc · Apr 28, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

However, if the enemy has a defense, you're outta luck

This is the key to the Assassin - selecting your targets very carefully. The Assassin's role is to pick out the weakest link (i.e. the one with the least defense) and then spike it to death in, IMO, less than 10 seconds.

I've been tinkering with an A/W build that carries Wild Blow to help eliminate any stances being used by the target to help reduce this risk (and gives you a critical strike from the getgo to boot). Using Frenzy as well is an interesting thought, sacrificing all defense for the quick kill.

Evilsod · Apr 28, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposable-hero

I find once i've dropped 3/4 conditions on my target who cares what dmg i'm doing (well i do but not as much as a warrior). Unfortunatly yes the assasin can stand and deal a constant lvl of dmg but but it CANT stand and tank the dmg back like a warrior making it logical to be hit and run condition stacker.

I'll tell you who cares, the RC/Prot standing in the background that you gave a free 300 health heal to. In a PvP environment all those conditions really won't help you. It just gives Prots a reason to stand and laugh at you stacking conditions on 1 person while they reduce everything you just did to 0 in a single Mend/Restore Condition spell.

Also how doesn't SV affect an Assassin as much as a Warrior? Warriors lose there energy and adren completely but can still hurt you more (8-18 for daggers isn't it?). Assassins lose there energy removing all there damaging combos. Doesn't help if you start spamming an attack chain and run out of energy after the 2nd move.

Edit: If you think bringing Frenzy on a A/W just for a 'quick' kill is smart i think you may need your head examined. Your armour is sub-warrior as it is, 1 hammer warrior waiting for you to activate Frenzy w/ full Adren is just gonna annihilate you. You'd be so much better off bringing Tigers Fury and sticking to targets without evasive stances.

Dark Suoon · Apr 28, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

with my assassin i can kill warriors real fast so it really matters by the skill u have and wut skills u are using

Yukito Kunisaki · Apr 28, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

This is the key to the Assassin - selecting your targets very carefully. The Assassin's role is to pick out the weakest link (i.e. the one with the least defense) and then spike it to death in, IMO, less than 10 seconds.

I've been tinkering with an A/W build that carries Wild Blow to help eliminate any stances being used by the target to help reduce this risk (and gives you a critical strike from the getgo to boot). Using Frenzy as well is an interesting thought, sacrificing all defense for the quick kill.

Did I not say warriors had a better time dealing with defenses than assassins do?

But yeah, if you're half warrior, you've got both worlds going for ya...

Also, that combo mentioning the thumper, you've got to deal 4 attacks to do your damage correct?

Some will crit or not, all things depending right?

How about this?

Unsuspecting Strike, Entangling Asp, Temple Strike {E}, Twisting Fangs
If conditions stick, [they sometimes do, even on a smart team...], you've pretty much guarunteed a kill... yay for massive degen!

If not, what's this?

Unsuspecting Strike, Fox Fangs, Horns of the Ox, Falling Spider

Oh yeah, let's not forget to put in Critical Eye and Locusts Fury {E} as our dmg support buffs.

I'd bet higher odds on the sin's 4 attacks doing more damage easily... With 16 dagger mastery and 20% more double striking, along with boost in crits, Good God the dmg dealt!!!

But again, if they have a good defense, no dmg is dealt... bah...

Jeremy Untouchable · Apr 28, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Assassins need to stick to atacking monks and rit, type targets...I havnt pvp vs AS in the last few days, but warrior owns them, Bad...run little fellow, kiss my hammer............I personally think they SUCK

DieInBasra · Apr 28, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Attacks skills don't matter after your third, and if you want to even start compareing assassin's to warriors, the sin's need to be up in the front the whole time.

Quote:

Unsuspecting Strike, Fox Fangs, Horns of the Ox, Falling Spider

Oh yeah, let's not forget to put in Critical Eye and Locusts Fury {E} as our dmg support buffs.

6 skills and you don't have an IAS or speed buff or healing skill or snare or ressig.

An axe warrior can do 26 dps without any attack skills, 40 with frenzy, and can spike for 250-300 with two skills every 10 seconds, 7 under frenzy. I'd really like someone to find an assasin build that can mimic that. Warrior's are going to stay as the only damage class, and I still don't know where the sin fit's except as a NPC killer/flag runner harasser.

Evilsod · Apr 28, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy untouchable

Assassins need to stick to atacking monks and rit, type targets...I havnt pvp vs AS in the last few days, but warrior owns them, Bad...run little fellow, kiss my hammer............I personally think they SUCK

You have no idea how many assassins i've seen think 'Flashing Blades' will save them due to the blocking vs Warriors. The more i see that, the more i'll bring Wild Blow just to end there fun. That or just stick to laughing at them fall on there arse vs Irresistable Blow.

Xasew · Apr 28, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Assassins need to stick to atacking monks and rit, type targets...I havnt pvp vs AS in the last few days, but warrior owns them, Bad...run little fellow, kiss my hammer............I personally think they SUCK

Quote:

with my assassin i can kill warriors real fast so it really matters by the skill u have and wut skills u are using

Where do these retards come from? And some people should learn to use Capital letters and p.u.n.c.t.u.a.t.i.o.n.s. Yes I'm pissed at the world and using it as an excuse to be an asshole.
You're comparing W vs. A in 1v1, which is the worst thing you can do in this game.
In 4v4 Assassins seem extremely strong, and my usual build kills anything without block/evade/blind in 10 seconds easy. In 8v8 the low armor forces the player to be extremely careful about over-extending, and using Frenzy IMO wouldn't be wise. Even if you pay enough attention to be able to cancel Frenzy the second you start getting hit, just 1 Orb/Irresistible/Whatever while you Frenzy can make the enemy spike alot more deadly with 70 armor.
I think we should let the metagame evolve a bit before making a final decision. I'm sure some guilds will soon find ways of exploiting some Assassin skills, but that's just part of the game and will get fixed(let's just hope they fix it faster than Spirit Spamming).

Xasew · Apr 28, 2006, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieInBasra

An axe warrior can do 26 dps without any attack skills, 40 with frenzy, and can spike for 250-300 with two skills every 10 seconds, 7 under frenzy. I'd really like someone to find an assasin build that can mimic that. Warrior's are going to stay as the only damage class, and I still don't know where the sin fit's except as a NPC killer/flag runner harasser.

Yes, it makes perfect logical sence that if your base dps is 26, using a skill that doubles your attacking speed, it'll jump to 40... No wait. Frenzy makes you attack twice as fast, the description is shit. You get 300 dmg from Evis+Exec if you count DW in and crit on the other hit and the other hit has to be quite high, too. Not that likely, unless the target is running and you crit on both hits(and if he runs your spike is gonna be slow as hell anyway).
I'd like to see you getting 8 adrenaline in 7 seconds... You can't seriously calculate it if you're hitting people that don't kite.
I agree that Warriors do more dmg, but it still doesn't mean Assassins can't get a place in the group as a damage dealer, because they have other things than just attacks. Assassins do decoy spikes pretty well btw, especially effective to do them on enemy Warriors, it forces the Monks to come and heal him, which makes the real spike easier to do on the enemy Monks.
Example: 2 Warriors+Mesmer+Ele spike a Monk, while the Assasins alone start a spike on a Warrior 1 second before.